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-   -   8800 vs 8830 web browsing (http://www.blackberryforums.com/showthread.php?t=76739)

jenz 05-16-2007 06:10 AM
8800 vs 8830 web browsing
 
anyone else have both devices so they can confirm what i saw ...

pitted the 8800 on cingular w/full bars on edge against the 8830 w/full bars on evdo and while the 8830 would win *marginally* (on the order of <5 seconds), i actually thought the 8830 would be leaps 'n bounds faster.

also, yes, i did use web sites that neither phone had seen before.

finally, there were even a few instances where the 8800 would actually load the page faster than the 8830. again, the difference is maybe 5 seconds but was surprised nonetheless.

happy surfing

knezek 05-16-2007 06:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenz (Post 537840)
anyone else have both devices so they can confirm what i saw ...

pitted the 8800 on cingular w/full bars on edge against the 8830 w/full bars on evdo and while the 8830 would win *marginally* (on the order of <5 seconds), i actually thought the 8830 would be leaps 'n bounds faster.

also, yes, i did use web sites that neither phone had seen before.

finally, there were even a few instances where the 8800 would actually load the page faster than the 8830. again, the difference is maybe 5 seconds but was surprised nonetheless.

happy surfing
From what I have read, the 8830 has a slower processor than the 8800, and this may be negating the data speed advantage....

Amckeithan 05-16-2007 09:21 AM
While on paper EVDO speeds are alot better. I have said this befor and i will say it now. I work for a telecom company and i install T1 onlines out to cell towers. When a new tower goes up we get orders to fill. 90% of the time there will be only 1 T1 line from sprint or cingular or verizon going to the tower. Evdo is ran offer 1 T1 and EDGE is ran off one T1. So while they might say evdo is faster all i know is t1 vs t1 will = the same speed. I get avg over 115k here where i live on my 8800c

BryanHarig 05-16-2007 09:43 AM
^^ That only holds true if both towers are at peak load and maxing out their backhaul connection. EVDO has the potential to deliver more bandwidth to each user if the tower has enough available. It also has a lower average latency.

I have both an 8703e on Sprint EVDO and a 8800g on T-mobile EDGE and I can say that EVDO is noticably faster. It is particularily noticable in programs like Google maps where panning in satilite view is far more smooth over EVDO than EDGE.

BryanHarig 05-16-2007 09:43 AM
...

takeshi 05-16-2007 11:42 AM
(nevermind -- dupe response)

richard371 05-16-2007 12:24 PM
Can't wait until Cingular Blackberrys go 3g.

dolo 05-16-2007 09:17 PM
I have owned both the 87xx on Cingular and currently use the 8703e now.

GSM bb's were supposedly run off of proxies allowing pages to render/load at a speedy rate.

The difference is extremely noticeable when you tether the devices to a laptop. The 8703e is very noticeably quicker.

Regards,
dolo

Dawgfan 05-17-2007 09:37 AM
With regards to browsing on the 88xx...if you haven't used "Desktop View" you are letting the best in life just pass you by...basically it is just a pretty cool feature for the BB (finally) IMO.

AuntyDan 05-17-2007 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amckeithan (Post 537969)
While on paper EVDO speeds are alot better. I have said this befor and i will say it now. I work for a telecom company and i install T1 onlines out to cell towers.
Interesting. Do you have any idea the load/usage of the T1s? As this single connection is going to be shared by all subscribers on that tower the more subscribers the less bandwidth will be available to go round.

Do they ever add additional T1s to very busy towers? Do both carriers share towers? (EG SPrint and Cingular) If so do they share the T1s?

BBDummy 05-17-2007 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenz (Post 537840)
anyone else have both devices so they can confirm what i saw ...

pitted the 8800 on cingular w/full bars on edge against the 8830 w/full bars on evdo and while the 8830 would win *marginally* (on the order of <5 seconds), i actually thought the 8830 would be leaps 'n bounds faster.

also, yes, i did use web sites that neither phone had seen before.

finally, there were even a few instances where the 8800 would actually load the page faster than the 8830. again, the difference is maybe 5 seconds but was surprised nonetheless.

happy surfing
Yep. Same experience here. Full signal on both devices in DC; Google loaded a few seconds faster on the 8830. Application downloads (e.g., Google maps, DST patch) seemed to go considerably faster on the 8830.

Based on the PCMag benchmarks, which differed only slightly b/w the two devices, it seems that the performance bottleneck isn't the processor.

field172 05-17-2007 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amckeithan (Post 537969)
While on paper EVDO speeds are alot better. I have said this befor and i will say it now. I work for a telecom company and i install T1 onlines out to cell towers. When a new tower goes up we get orders to fill. 90% of the time there will be only 1 T1 line from sprint or cingular or verizon going to the tower. Evdo is ran offer 1 T1 and EDGE is ran off one T1. So while they might say evdo is faster all i know is t1 vs t1 will = the same speed. I get avg over 115k here where i live on my 8800c
That is a very simplistic view of how it works (n) There are many complexities that you have not considered and I don't profess to have the knowledge to do so. My own, real-world tests show an EVDO BB teathered as a MODEM is significatly faster than teathered MODEM EDGE BB. But that doesn't mean the EDVO BB's are better.

Also, there is a BIG difference in how the BB device processes packets for it's own internal data comm purposes (e-mail, surfing, BES comm, etc.) versus how it processes packets as a teathered MODEM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knezek (Post 537854)
From what I have read, the 8830 has a slower processor than the 8800, and this may be negating the data speed advantage....
Also a simplistic view of what's going on. It would be like comparing PowerPC CPU speeds or AMD CPU's to Intel CPU speeds, the raw numbers don't tell the whole story. The 8800 and 8830 use completely different CPU's.

Back to jenz' original question: In the real world maybe we should not expect such a huge difference between the two. To make my own decision of 8800 vs. 8830 I would not gauge the device by only one test. IMHO an overall user experience test is more useful. What I mean is, how well does the device respond in the real world when doing lots of things at once such as loading a web page, interacting with BES for wireless PIM synch, managing an imcoming call or SMS all the while keeping the navigation between all these apps smooth and real-time. For me and the way I used my BB, that's how I would guage it.

field172.

Dubdub 05-17-2007 07:48 PM
the connection means everything, along with processor speed and available memory.

Amckeithan 05-18-2007 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by field172 (Post 539465)
That is a very simplistic view of how it works (n) There are many complexities that you have not considered and I don't profess to have the knowledge to do so. My own, real-world tests show an EVDO BB teathered as a MODEM is significatly faster than teathered MODEM EDGE BB. But that doesn't mean the EDVO BB's are better.

Also, there is a BIG difference in how the BB device processes packets for it's own internal data comm purposes (e-mail, surfing, BES comm, etc.) versus how it processes packets as a teathered MODEM.



Also a simplistic view of what's going on. It would be like comparing PowerPC CPU speeds or AMD CPU's to Intel CPU speeds, the raw numbers don't tell the whole story. The 8800 and 8830 use completely different CPU's.

Back to jenz' original question: In the real world maybe we should not expect such a huge difference between the two. To make my own decision of 8800 vs. 8830 I would not gauge the device by only one test. IMHO an overall user experience test is more useful. What I mean is, how well does the device respond in the real world when doing lots of things at once such as loading a web page, interacting with BES for wireless PIM synch, managing an imcoming call or SMS all the while keeping the navigation between all these apps smooth and real-time. For me and the way I used my BB, that's how I would guage it.

field172.
OK let me go into alittle more into this for u.
T1 has so much info it can send from the tower to the remote office.
EVDO offers what like 600k? or so? Ok so 600k of the t1 is ate up by this one phone. less say u can have about 25data and 40calls up a snigle t1 befor it is filled up.
Now edge is about 115 or so. Now it can offer over 100data and 40 calls.
So network i would go with cingular (like i said where i live) bc i know it will have more open channels on the t1 for me to hit. This will change as cingular switchs to 3g here.

Like i said i work with this stuff all day 7 days aweek. I see how things are setup and ran. If u dont work with this stuff then its hard to understand everything. I try to make it as simple as i can.

woodi68 05-18-2007 05:24 PM
It blows my mind that anyone can even compare the two (EDGE and EVDO). I completely agree with field172. This whole T1 thing is a silly attempt to make both technologies look like they work the same.

And so, does that mean because I hook up one computer in my house through a 28.8 dial-up via telephone and I hook up another computer to the same telephone line via DSL that I get the same performance? AFTERALL, if what you say is true, the only thing holding them back is the capacity of the phone lines transmitting the data, having nothing to do with how the data is moved and connecting into the individual systems.

Bandwidth and available bandwidth have very little to do with this conversation. It's the ability to take advantage of the bandwidth (or not).

field172 05-22-2007 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodi68 (Post 540287)
It blows my mind that anyone can even compare the two (EDGE and EVDO). I completely agree with field172. This whole T1 thing is a silly attempt to make both technologies look like they work the same.
Thank you (y)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amckeithan (Post 539982)
OK let me go into alittle more into this for u.
T1 has so much info it can send from the tower to the remote office.
EVDO offers what like 600k? or so? Ok so 600k of the t1 is ate up by this one phone. less say u can have about 25data and 40calls up a snigle t1 befor it is filled up.
Huh? :shock:
Are we talking about the same kind of T1 (as in 1.54Mbps, broken down to 24x64K channels)? 600Kbps x2 = 1.2Mbps. Are you sure about your math? And... EVDO in my area is closer to 900Kbps (and peaks higher).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amckeithan (Post 539982)
Like i said i work with this stuff all day 7 days aweek. I see how things are setup and ran. If u dont work with this stuff then its hard to understand everything. I try to make it as simple as i can.
I'm definately not understanding it. :?
How many T1's do you connect to create enough capacity for cell tower's backhaul?

field172


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