[PapiPabs]

Originally Posted by darkdragoon

I've also noticed the issue. Guess its the difference between disabling Data Services and turning Mobile Network off.

Yup. Looks like the device could care less whether you have a connection to the mobile network, but as soon as the connection to BB data services is lost, bye-bye WiFi...

[mckinneycm]

Originally Posted by PapiPabs

Yup. Looks like the device could care less whether you have a connection to the mobile network, but as soon as the connection to BB data services is lost, bye-bye WiFi...

That doesn't make any sense....If you lose connection to the mobile network, then your data services are gone as well. You can't have data without mobile network.

[darkdragoon]

Originally Posted by mckinneycm

That doesn't make any sense....If you lose connection to the mobile network, then your data services are gone as well. You can't have data without mobile network.

Lets break this down.

Data Service off = Wifi not working
Mobile Network off = Wifi will work

I cant make any sense out of it. Need to do more research on it.

[grynr]

Originally Posted by darkdragoon

Lets break this down.

Data Service off = Wifi not working
Mobile Network off = Wifi will work

I cant make any sense out of it. Need to do more research on it.

I have spent hours playing with the WiFi.
tried it with 3 SIMs.
with AT&T that has a data plan - Wifi is on.
with AT&T without a data plan - Wifi is grayed out.
with foreign (Israeli) SIM w/o data plan - WiFi is grayed out.

now. AT&T SIM with Data Plan, when the At&t NETWORK IS NOT AVAILABLE - WIFI is grayed out. (an Iphone in the same location HAD WIFI).
no ifs and buts....
I tested it 20 times
therefore there must be a bug...

[darkdragoon]

So its like when Data Service is not available, Wifi greyed out, thats almost same as switching Data Service off. And when you switch the whole Mobile Network off under Manage Connections, Wifi is connected. Seems like a bug to me too.

[PapiPabs]

Originally Posted by mckinneycm

That doesn't make any sense....If you lose connection to the mobile network, then your data services are gone as well. You can't have data without mobile network.

I realize that if you lost connection to the mobile network your data services would likely be gone as well if it happened naturally without you tampering with the settings. I wasn't talking about a real-world lost connection really, but more testing out when the Wi-Fi would work and when it wouldn't.

As has been stated already, if you disable the Mobile Network connection under Manage Connections with Wi-Fi enabled, you can still surf the web just fine over Wi-Fi. But if you go into your Mobile Network Options and change the Data Services setting to Off, you won't be able to surf via Wi-Fi no matter what your Mobile Network setting is. Long story short, Wi-Fi functionality is tied to whether you are connected to data services or not.

I'm not a gambling man, but I'd say that's why grynr noticed that Wi-Fi was working on the iPhone but not on the AT&T BB. Wi-Fi functionality on the iPhone seems to be standalone, and completely independent of the data plan.

[PapiPabs]

Originally Posted by darkdragoon

So its like when Data Service is not available, Wifi greyed out, thats almost same as switching Data Service off. And when you switch the whole Mobile Network off under Manage Connections, Wifi is connected. Seems like a bug to me too.

True, but when you force the Mobile Network off manually when you would have had coverage and you don't turn off Data Services, it seems logical that the device would still be able to connect to data because there is nothing telling it not to and it is accessible.

It is weird. Not really sure why they would have the Wi-Fi dependant on the data plan unless it was necessary to integrate the two to have push email delivered instantly via Wi-Fi...or they just wanted to royally screw everybody that didn't want to purchase the data plan...yeah, probably the latter! LOL

[grynr]

Originally Posted by PapiPabs

I realize that if you lost connection to the mobile network your data services would likely be gone as well if it happened naturally without you tampering with the settings. I wasn't talking about a real-world lost connection really, but more testing out when the Wi-Fi would work and when it wouldn't.

As has been stated already, if you disable the Mobile Network connection under Manage Connections with Wi-Fi enabled, you can still surf the web just fine over Wi-Fi. But if you go into your Mobile Network Options and change the Data Services setting to Off, you won't be able to surf via Wi-Fi no matter what your Mobile Network setting is. Long story short, Wi-Fi functionality is tied to whether you are connected to data services or not.

I'm not a gambling man, but I'd say that's why grynr noticed that Wi-Fi was working on the iPhone but not on the AT&T BB. Wi-Fi functionality on the iPhone seems to be standalone, and completely independent of the data plan.

Sorry...but wrong.
Data service was enabled (obviously).
The Bug I described has nothing to do with the settings.... It has to-do with the fact that you stated, that somehow while the Iphone has the Wi-Fi functionality as standalone, the BBY has it tied up to the Mobile functionality.

[PapiPabs]

Originally Posted by grynr

Sorry...but wrong.
Data service was enabled (obviously).
The Bug I described has nothing to do with the settings.... It has to-do with the fact that you stated, that somehow while the Iphone has the Wi-Fi functionality as standalone, the BBY has it tied up to the Mobile functionality.

I never said that your data services setting was set to off. What I'm saying is that the Wi-Fi on the BlackBerry is tied to the data services being available, and the Wi-Fi on the iPhone isn't...and that was the issue that caused the BB not to work while the iPhone did.

When I mentioned the data services setting being set to off, I was talking about manually doing so in a testing scenario to determine when Wi-Fi functionality would work and when it wouldn't.

What I'm thinking is that neither phone had access to data services OR the mobile network (two different things based on the settings in the phone), but since the iPhone doesn't look for its data services to be connected before connecting to the internet via Wi-Fi, it worked. The BlackBerry doesn't depend on the mobile network being connected, but it does check for BB data services to be available before it lets you connect to the internet via Wi-Fi.

Sorry for the long post, just figured I would try to clear up any confusion about what I had posted earlier.

[grynr]

good answer

[PapiPabs]

Originally Posted by grynr

good answer

LOL. Thanks. Felt like I was typing out War and Peace for a second there!

I'm thinking there's got to be a way to get Wi-Fi to connect without seeing an active data connection though. I'm seeing posts all over the web with people using the Hot Spot browser instead of MediaNet/the Internet browser to surf via Wi-Fi without having a data plan.