[jnyost]

Originally Posted by corey@12mile

General labourers carry treo's.

Why are they carrying a Treo? I don't understand what general laborers need with a smartphone. A simple cell is all I see any of the construction guys around here use.

[jnyost]

Back to the question at hand....

Will BB every make a clam shell? They will if they realize what the best form factor is. Anyone ever wonder why laptops are clam shells? Easy... Because its the best form factor for saving physical size but yet offering large screens and large keyboards.

[goaliemn]

Motorola made a clam shell 2-way pager for awhile. It has a full keyboard like the blackberry does. Its monsterous. I don't know how they could shrink the blackberry down much and get a usable keyboard on it.

They could make it, but it would still require a holster and such.

[stokestack]

The entire BB keyboard would fit nicely on the back of a StarTac, which is still as thin as 99 percent of the phones out there and way better constructed. Have the screen flip around, and you have what many people are waiting for: a phone/PDA that doesn't make you feel like you're talking into a sandwich.

[KonTiki]

Originally Posted by stokestack

The entire BB keyboard would fit nicely on the back of a StarTac, which is still as thin as 99 percent of the phones out there and way better constructed. Have the screen flip around, and you have what many people are waiting for: a phone/PDA that doesn't make you feel like you're talking into a sandwich.

Get a life, people do not care. Functionality is what matters, not what it looks like in the long run. Yes i make fun of it myself but you know what, nothing beats the e-mail, and PDA functionality of it, the fact that is a phone too is a plus. And bottom line is if you are vain enough that it matters so much, get a Bluetooth headset and no one will see your "hero". Get it. Ahhhh.

[jnyost]

Originally Posted by KonTiki

Get a life, people do not care. Functionality is what matters, not what it looks like in the long run. Yes i make fun of it myself but you know what, nothing beats the e-mail, and PDA functionality of it, the fact that is a phone too is a plus. And bottom line is if you are vain enough that it matters so much, get a Bluetooth headset and no one will see your "hero". Get it. Ahhhh.

I wouldn't let the form-factor deter me either, but why not improve?

[KonTiki]

Originally Posted by jnyost

I wouldn't let the form-factor deter me either, but why not improve?

I was an avid flip phone user for over ten years, would not use the candybar type phone at all. Once I bought the BlackBerry I became a convert immediaely and would never ever go back to a flip type phone. Yes I agree about the improvements factor but what improvement would you see in a flip phone. Think about it you now have a part that is constantly being flipped (wear and tear), have you read the disaster stories in some of the threads here. I am sure that half of them would not be survival stories had the phone been a flip phone. They are inherently weaker by design. I am happy with the design of the 7250 I own, it took me a while to find a case that made me sure and comfortable with it being fully protected in as much as I do not tolerate even a scratch on my phone, and yes I would love the 8700 but would not trade down in size from what I have now. A camera on the phone, what for, I own a tremendous camera already, and do not see how my life or work would be any easier for me or anyone else if you add a camera with low and poor resolution to the BB. Lets take advice from Mother nature and leave silly, inane, and useless new and improved gimmicks to the guys on Madison Avenue and away from our devices. Sorry for the ranting and raving but I am so tired with people who cannot be happy with a terrific product and are always trying to improve. I mean the 8700 is barely out yet and there are countless threads here already looking to improve it, I am waiting for the guy that suggest to convert it to a Star Trek communicator so Scotty can beam us up.

[jnyost]

Originally Posted by KonTiki

I was an avid flip phone user for over ten years, would not use the candybar type phone at all. Once I bought the BlackBerry I became a convert immediaely and would never ever go back to a flip type phone. Yes I agree about the improvements factor but what improvement would you see in a flip phone. Think about it you now have a part that is constantly being flipped (wear and tear), have you read the disaster stories in some of the threads here. I am sure that half of them would not be survival stories had the phone been a flip phone. They are inherently weaker by design. I am happy with the design of the 7250 I own, it took me a while to find a case that made me sure and comfortable with it being fully protected in as much as I do not tolerate even a scratch on my phone, and yes I would love the 8700 but would not trade down in size from what I have now. A camera on the phone, what for, I own a tremendous camera already, and do not see how my life or work would be any easier for me or anyone else if you add a camera with low and poor resolution to the BB. Lets take advice from Mother nature and leave silly, inane, and useless new and improved gimmicks to the guys on Madison Avenue and away from our devices. Sorry for the ranting and raving but I am so tired with people who cannot be happy with a terrific product and are always trying to improve. I mean the 8700 is barely out yet and there are countless threads here already looking to improve it, I am waiting for the guy that suggest to convert it to a Star Trek communicator so Scotty can beam us up.

If they don't improve anything then they will become stagnant and overrun. We don't want BB to become comfortable with the great product and think it will never need updating.

I still think I would prefer a clam shell. I've always loved mine in the past. I have had two from Nextel and they were the best two phones I've every owned. My wife is still pissed she gave up her i1000 monster to move to Verizon.

I still come back to the analogy of a laptop. Why make it???? Because its better (relative term, I know). Why are laptops not flat devices that do not fold? Like I said, I'm not knocking the BB, I don't think life will end without a clamshell, but what the hell, why not try one? Maybe they can design one that will not be physically large but still be robust (Nextel does). I think its worth a shot.

[Dawg]

Rename this thread to I want a piece of garbage flip phone with a camera and an mp3 player not a reliable business tool

[KonTiki]

Ill use an analogy that everyone can understand it is called "New and Improved". Madison Avenue speak. Looks mean nothing, its what it can do for me. My BB is a Business tool. I use it to connect to my office and run my servers via it. I use it for e-mail. I use it for pasword retrievals, I use it to write things down that i need to remember. I do not need music for work, If I did, id use cd player on my pc or the 5 gigs of music already stored in my hard drive. I do not use a camera for work no need to, If I needed one we own a Canon PowerShot digital camera that takes pictures at 8 pixel resolution.

Again you are missing the point. If you want a gadget there is nothing wrong with that, there hundreds out there, be my guest buy one buy two buy them all. If RIM has a need to satidfy techno gadgeteers like you then let them create a new division (hint 7100 models, and all the inherent problems associated with it, btw take the time to read the amount of complaints and what product it is ussually associated with, hint, hint). Bottom line again is the BB can always be improved, but make sure that the improvements are indeed functional and utile for what it is was intended to begin with, to be a business tool. Anything short of that makes them part of the pack, and not in a league of their own as they are now. What irks me is the people that come here and try to tell everyone else here about all the gadgets that that the BB should have like the phone they left behind, well no one is holding yu hostage here, if the BB is not what you want or need go elsewhere, leave the rest of us old fogees here to be happy and content.

[jnyost]

Lets rename this thread to "I'm so freakin blind I can't see improvements". You can't tell me the BB is perfect. Get over it.

I guess I don't see how making a BB a clamshell is a novelty or makes it a gadget. To me it is a tool. Make my tool functional but make it easy to handle as well. I'm into looks. I currently have a Treo. They are big, ugly, and heavy, I want a clamshell not because of of the newer smaller flip phones, but instead make it a functional device that protects the screen when closed, and takes up less of my hip.

On a side note, are you saying that the 7100 is problemsom? I've been putting off the 7250 for the 7100e. If I hear that the 7100 has issues, I'll go ahead and get the 7250. I didn't want to get a device that was going to be outdated if a newer piece was coming market.

[Dawg]

7100 hundred has issues just like a flip phone would they have tried to make it for the average consumer and it doint work Rim needs to stick with what they do best the business side of the world

[KonTiki]

A flip phone will take more room in your hip it will be wider, and there are real good cases that protect the screen. And yes if you read through the forum you will see the issues with the 7100 series. I have a 7250 and it is an excellent phone, I would recommend it heartily to anyone.

[Jack T. Chance]

Originally Posted by jnyost

Lets rename this thread to "I'm so freakin blind I can't see improvements". You can't tell me the BB is perfect. Get over it.

I guess I don't see how making a BB a clamshell is a novelty or makes it a gadget. To me it is a tool. Make my tool functional but make it easy to handle as well. I'm into looks. I currently have a Treo. They are big, ugly, and heavy, I want a clamshell not because of of the newer smaller flip phones, but instead make it a functional device that protects the screen when closed, and takes up less of my hip.

On a side note, are you saying that the 7100 is problemsom? I've been putting off the 7250 for the 7100e. If I hear that the 7100 has issues, I'll go ahead and get the 7250. I didn't want to get a device that was going to be outdated if a newer piece was coming market.

jnyost, I don't know how many times this has to be said before you'll get it through your thick skull, but I'm going to give it one more try:

THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A CLAMSHELL (FLIP) BLACKBERRY! YOU ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY PERSON THAT WANTS ONE!!! YOU'VE MADE YOUR POINT, HARDLY ANYONE AGREES WITH YOU, NOW GIVE IT A REST!!!!!

But I have good news:

There IS a device coming out that probably WILL be what you want!

THE HTC UNIVERSAL

Just one thing, though... given the generally buggy nature of all Windows operating systems, don't expect it to be as good or as reliable as a !

[DSS597]

I wouldn't say you're the only one that would enjoy having a clamshell style BlackBerry. "Jack" is being a bit presumptuous on that one. Unless "Jack" is the CEO of RIM, none of us really knows what they would ever do when it comes to design. Maybe one day we will see one?

As far as the BlackBerry is concerned with its "security", I think it's so funny how the argument of security is so strong with everything BlackBerry. It's secure, no doubt, but there isn't too much out there that can't be cracked. Don't put too much on that "security" feature. It's understood that military, government and even Fortune 500 companies use them because they're very secure, but former president Ronald Regan was protected by the U.S. Secret Service and he still caught a bullet. The point, security has it's limits or limitations. I read a comment about how security guards won't even let you in the building if you have a camera phone or any device other than a BlackBerry. The way security is (and I do work in the industry), all it takes is someone putting a frickin' BlackBerry sticker on the front of their device and security wouldn't know any better and would wave it through. They don't pay attention that much.

You both make perfect points, but you agree to disagree. It's all good. "Jack" you're puttin' waaaaaaaay too much on it. It's really not that serious. And jnyost it's all good man. Save your breath and digress dude. Ha, ha. I hear ya' man!!!

[jnyost]

Thanks DSS597.

Jack
All I'm saying is that you (JacK) do not speak for everyone. You must be pretty arrogant to think that everyone wants what you want. If my previous posts are read you will find out that I am just giving pro's of a clamshell and not saying that I won't buy until they come out. I'm also not saying that they need to change everything to clamshells. Different form factors are for different people. I'm looking into the 7250's right now. I can't wait to get mine (although all my coworkers hate theirs). I think I'd like a 7100 but haven't really decided. The screen doesn't look at big as a 7200. If they were to make a clamshell, it might be bucked by some at first, but it won't be the end of BBs as you indicate. The reason I'd lean toward a clam shell is I'd rather have one that was thicker than tall. I'd like it to be long (like a house phone) but only when unfolded.

(Nice red letters.....)

Dawg
How can you state the problems with the 7100 are anything like a clamshell? Sticking to the business side of the world has nothing to do with making a clamshell or not. It's the technology, not the formfactor. Making something the size of a calculator doesn't make it a business tool.

[DSS597]

"Making something the size of a calculator doesn't make it a business tool."

True, true!

[jjessen]

I know this thread is stale, BUT, I wanted to say that I would love to see a flip BB. A flip BB in the LG VX9800 form factor. Very cool clamshell. If you haven't left the world of BB long enough to keep up with the new cell phones, check this one out. It's the Verizon phone they call the V. It is set up like the Nokia communicator line. WIDE SCREEN WITH STEREO SPEAKERS!!!

[MI_Jester]

Originally Posted by jnyost

You obviously don't get it. Is a camera not a tool? <snip>

Have you ever had to send a picture immediately? I can take a pic and send it with my phone to another. There have been a couple emergencies where I have had to do this. I rarely have internet access at my sites so I cannot use a digital camera and then send with my laptop.

This is not your space, add a camera. The market share will increase, not decrease.

Since this thread has come up... again... here's my response.

The security issue is a matter of convienence. It's the difference of having your doors locked on your car. It won't stop a professional theif, but it will stop the criminal of convienence.

Have you never had a prototype photographed and posted on the internet? Complete with manufacturing tooling exposed? Well, it has happened. The picture was taken by a camera phone and emailed directly to the webmaster even before they had left the facility. What if this was confidential documents? What if it was used to snap unethical pictures of workers? Who's liable?

Can all of these be done with true digital cameras? Of course, but it is no longer convienent. Just like you said, how many times did you want a camera and not have one on you? Cell phones with cameras are against our corporate policy. We allow all BlackBerries because we know they don't have cameras. Hopefully, it remains the same.

Regarding the clamshell. I like the formfactor of the Nokia 9300 but won't use one because there isn't a vibrate feature. Silent only makes the LED light up when you get a message or phone call.

Jester

[jnyost]

Originally Posted by MI_Jester

Since this thread has come up... again... here's my response.

The security issue is a matter of convienence. It's the difference of having your doors locked on your car. It won't stop a professional theif, but it will stop the criminal of convienence.

Have you never had a prototype photographed and posted on the internet? Complete with manufacturing tooling exposed? Well, it has happened. The picture was taken by a camera phone and emailed directly to the webmaster even before they had left the facility. What if this was confidential documents? What if it was used to snap unethical pictures of workers? Who's liable?

Can all of these be done with true digital cameras? Of course, but it is no longer convienent. Just like you said, how many times did you want a camera and not have one on you? Cell phones with cameras are against our corporate policy. We allow all BlackBerries because we know they don't have cameras. Hopefully, it remains the same.

Regarding the clamshell. I like the formfactor of the Nokia 9300 but won't use one because there isn't a vibrate feature. Silent only makes the LED light up when you get a message or phone call.

Jester

I can't believe someone dug up this thread again. If someone wanted to take a picture, they would. It has nothing to do with a BB having a camera. It is a nieve thought that keeping cameras out of BBs makes you secure. There can be multiple versions of BBs made. Some with and some without cameras. If a security official cannot tell if there is a camera on the phone they obviously cannot tell the difference between a BB and another phone.

Wanting a camera or not is purely preferential and has nothing to do with security.