[greeneggsandham]

Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry

Ah yes - thank goodness for the smart geeks who made this all possible.

Enjoy IMAP, and the knowledge that you are superior. Heh heh heh.

I think many of us will keep using our nice BES, and enjoy wireless reconciliation and syncing.

Good night all.

Said I was a "smart *nix geek" and may be able to use those skills to overcome some bb limitations but don't recall having said anything about being superior. That's second time today you've tried putting words in my mouth. A bit cheeky form for a mod, don't you think?

Originally Posted by juwaack68

I do know what most of those mean (ok, all of them), but I don't understand what you mean by "BIS doesn't really work". I receive my BIS email on my Blackberry. How is that considered not working? Yes, I read the entire thread, but I think I need pictures.

The same thing happens when my husband tries to explain VMWare and TSM Storage to me...my eyes just glaze over and I start counting ceiling tiles.

I get new email coming into my inbox, but doesn't sync with rest of folders like IMAP4 mua (mail user agent) should. Okay, so that is one limitation. Good to know. Here's another - once the mail arrives in bb device I can delete it on device and server from the bb and the mail is moved to trash. But... if I delete mail on my workstation (wh/then goes to trash folder on IMAP server) it the message stays on my bb device until I manually delete it. But apparently this can take up to 48 hrs. so maybe I just need to wait longer. I don't use MS, nor am I going to just to make email on my smart phone work.

[hdawg]

Originally Posted by juwaack68

I do know what most of those mean (ok, all of them), but I don't understand what you mean by "BIS doesn't really work". I receive my BIS email on my Blackberry. How is that considered not working? Yes, I read the entire thread, but I think I need pictures.

The same thing happens when my husband tries to explain VMWare and TSM Storage to me...my eyes just glaze over and I start counting ceiling tiles.

When you hear TSM, do as I do ... get a drink. It makes it a lot more fun.

[greeneggsandham]

Yippie!! Woke up this morning and looks like my bb BIS setup is working properly now. Mail sent from BB is in my "Sent" folder and mail deleted from workstation(s) is no longer showing up in my BB. Man, that took a looong time for BIS to sync up. Thanks for all who helped out with their suggestions, especially Scott8586, as knowing that BIS was working with other *nix IMAP server prompted me to take another look at this. That being said, I didn't change anything on my end so there must have been some bb/t-mo issue on the backend. So wtf?? Possibilities:

1) The t-mo techs had told me it would take 48 hours before device would sync up but in my case took considerably longer. During one of my calls t-mo told me they'd been having router issues wh/were resulting in support calls being dropped but it does not seem like this should have affected BIS?

2) Looking at the mail server logs I note that over the past couple days there were some pretty large gaps between connects from RIM servers (hours) whereas initially connects were coming approx. every 15 mins. Maybe RIM was having some issues server side?

Neither of which would explain why sent mail was previously showing up various sent-items, etc. permutations but not when folder was named "Sent" referenced in my OP, but hey, I'm just happy BIS appears to be working correctly now. Think I'm going to keep this 8320

Thanks again folks.

[tobyw]

Pleased it's working for you now. In terms of the reconciliation from mailbox-->handheld note that it will always take a while (RIM knowledgebase states up to 6 hours, Yahoo excepted).

[greeneggsandham]

Originally Posted by tobyw

Pleased it's working for you now. In terms of the reconciliation from mailbox-->handheld note that it will always take a while (RIM knowledgebase states up to 6 hours, Yahoo excepted).

So am I

Seems to only take 1 or 2 hrs. now that it's working. t-mo had told me up to 48 hrs. for initial sync. But in my case probably about double that. I read somewhere else that RIM had network outage (thurs??) so maybe this disrupted sync on their end and process had to start over from scratch? Looks like I perhaps may have just been victim of "series of unfortunate events" between t-mo's and bis backends, as I didn't have to change any config on my end either server or bb client side.

If things continue to go well on network backend then I plan to order more of these puppies. We're pretty much a MS free shop so BES is non option. How often do these RIM/BIS outages occur and what kind of duration do you see? I imagine it should be pretty minimal these days w/any modern NOC but perhaps RIM is experiencing growing pains?

fyi- Some older threads I read on these forums indicated compatability problems with Cyrus IMAP servers configured to use ALTNAMESPACE. Don't know if this has subsequently become non issue but I can confirm that my 8320 works just fine and dandy with Cyrus regardless of altnamespace flag is on or off.

[CanuckBB]

Most reported RIM outages are actually cell provider outages. It also seems that BES is a lot more stable than BIS.

[Spankypoo]

I know this isn't going to win me any friends, but, directed to no one in particular:

If BES is always a viable option, or you don't have any need for real BIS IMAP support, then good for you. We're not all in such lofty territory. And if you just don't understand what's being discussed (if you don't know what certain acronyms mean it doesn't automatically follow that the people using them are showing off), then please refrain from acting like the dumb kid in class who makes fun of others for knowing things he doesn't.

BlackBerry owners can be peculiarly absurd in their defense of RIM and its products. People ought to stay out of threads that don't speak to their interests, rather than cripple the discussion because the way you use your BlackBerry isn't hindered by RIM's lousy BIS IMAP implementation. I'd also think moderators would be doubly good about this, and I'll leave it at that.

greeneggsandham and Scott - Thanks for all the good info on this. I'd never gotten IMAP support working well and figured it just wasn't possible. I'll give it another shot. (Watch your PM box in case I get stuck!)

[greeneggsandham]

Originally Posted by Spankypoo

I know this isn't going to win me any friends, but, directed to no one in particular:

If BES is always a viable option, or you don't have any need for real BIS IMAP support, then good for you. We're not all in such lofty territory. And if you just don't understand what's being discussed (if you don't know what certain acronyms mean it doesn't automatically follow that the people using them are showing off), then please refrain from acting like the dumb kid in class who makes fun of others for knowing things he doesn't.

BlackBerry owners can be peculiarly absurd in their defense of RIM and its products. People ought to stay out of threads that don't speak to their interests, rather than cripple the discussion because the way you use your BlackBerry isn't hindered by RIM's lousy BIS IMAP implementation. I'd also think moderators would be doubly good about this, and I'll leave it at that.

greeneggsandham and Scott - Thanks for all the good info on this. I'd never gotten IMAP support working well and figured it just wasn't possible. I'll give it another shot. (Watch your PM box in case I get stuck!)

The extraordinarily long time periods required for initial sync may result in many in similar BIS boats as us giving up before sync'ing completes. The account I used has thousands of messages archived. I got the device on Monday but t-mo dropped the ball on the backend and didn't get my data/email turned on until Wednesday morning. When t-mo bb support said up to 48 hrs. for initial sync I was shocked but figured they were exaggerating a bit so as to give themselves lots of breathing room. When it was still not sync'd Friday I called back. My bb tech support calls kept getting dropped and I was informed by t-mo "regular" support that they were having "routing issues". I assumed they're reference was directed solely towards bb tech support dept., since I could talk with other billing reps, etc. no problem, but maybe was some related bb traffic shaping issue (not ranting here, just stating facts as they were told to me). In any event, it took until sometime late Sunday evening to early Monday morning before messages deleted on my workstation MUA were also being deleted on my BB device. Once it started working, it only takes about an hour after I delete on workstation MUA for message to be deleted from BB device message window/view.

Following up on this bit:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott8586 View Post
I'm guessing this is because my deleted e-mail is expunged to the Trash folder upon logout. (freshly deleted e-mails are in my Trash, but also invisibly in my INBOX until I logout, then they are only in my Trash folder).

Hmmm... you may well be onto something here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott8586 View Post
I use Thunderbird as my e-mail client, set to "Move it to the trash folder" when I delete a message. (I empty my Trash folder every couple of days or so.)

I do not have to close my workstation MUA as described by Scott. In order to keep consistent between various workstations, laptops, and webmail, I like to keep my Trash folder on the IMAP server itself. It's been a bit since I configured t-bird, but iirc, it defaults to use Trash folder on local workstation. If such is the case with Scott's set up then this may explain why he needs to log out.


End result is:

1) whatever's in you inbox server side gets sync'd up w/bb device "inbox". Eventually.

2) Messages sent/deleted on your bb device get moved to respective Sent/Trash folders serverside +/- immediately. The name of these folders does not seem to matter as I initially thought.

This is all probably common kmowledge to experienced bb users, some of whom may well be getting a good chuckle at my expense but I've got broad shoulders so followed up in case can be of benefit to some other bb newbie sysadmin types.

Do you know what IMAP server is hosting your mail?

[Mark Rejhon]

Greeneggsandham,

Some people have resorted to using GMAIL over IMAP, since GMAIL supports two-way push synchronization with BlackBerry. (It's a special collaboration between RIM and Google).

How To: Use Gmail over IMAP and tag your mail, too - Download Squad

Not perfect, but for certain IMAP users who has needs that are satisfied with this, it could work...

[whsbuss]

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

Greeneggsandham,

Some people have resorted to using GMAIL over IMAP, since GMAIL supports two-way push synchronization with BlackBerry. (It's a special collaboration between RIM and Google).

How To: Use Gmail over IMAP and tag your mail, too - Download Squad

Not perfect, but for certain IMAP users who has needs that are satisfied with this, it could work...

Just to add what Mark has stated, you can also get the same Gmail functionality on your BB using Google Hosted Apps. I have two domains on Google Apps integrated on the BIS. I did have to contact RIM to get those domains added for instant delivery. Works almost as good as IMAP and is a great alternative.

Update: seems the BIS now has the capability of adding Google hosted domain to their notify server. No need to contact RIM.

[greeneggsandham]

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

Greeneggsandham,

Some people have resorted to using GMAIL over IMAP, since GMAIL supports two-way push synchronization with BlackBerry. (It's a special collaboration between RIM and Google).

How To: Use Gmail over IMAP and tag your mail, too - Download Squad

Not perfect, but for certain IMAP users who has needs that are satisfied with this, it could work...

Originally Posted by whsbuss

Just to add what Mark has stated, you can also get the same Gmail functionality on your BB using Google Hosted Apps. I have two domains on Google Apps integrated on the BIS. I did have to contact RIM to get those domains added for instant delivery. Works almost as good as IMAP and is a great alternative.

Thank you both for the info. However, using Gmail accounts for business doesn't look very professional

As of now, I'm fine with the way BIS is working. Now that it is working Having mail sent from BB get pushed back to server side Sent folder not working was the deal killer. Full IMAP folder access would be nice, but not essential, and I have suspicion it will eventually be implemented on BIS.

[Mark Rejhon]

Originally Posted by greeneggsandham

Thank you both for the info. However, using Gmail accounts for business doesn't look very professional

Don't forget GMAIL supports domain name, Google allows you to attach your domain name to GMAIL for free. Your GMAIL box can be instead of greg@gmail

Your business buddies don't even need to know you're using GMAIL.

And since with the aboveforementioned technique, you're already IMAP-backing up your GMAIL box locally, so you're not stuck with messages held hostage by GMAIL in the future... If BlackBerry starts to develop native IMAP, it should be easy to transition the GMAIL IMAP trick to a real IMAP system, if the problem is ever solved...

Not perfect, I know. But worth "testing" out?

[greeneggsandham]

As side note - I'm currently test driving an E61i, which solves all these IMAP4 problems nicely and does a ton of other cool power user stuff to boot but which, unfortunately, has near brain dead UI compared to BB. Up in the air as to whether the trade off in usability would be acceptable but do know that I'm going to keep my eyes open for Nokia's follow up to this device as the power and functionality are there and now they just need to smooth out the rough edges on the UI. But then I'm also going to be keeping my eyes open for next generation BIS

[Mark Rejhon]

Two new developments.

1. GMAIL just added native IMAP support.
Unfortunately, BIS doesn't do IMAP IDLE, so not a full push solution.

2. LogicMail IMAP client for BlackBerry
LogicMail for BlackBerry - Trac

[greeneggsandham]

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

Two new developments.

1. GMAIL just added native IMAP support.
Unfortunately, BIS doesn't do IMAP IDLE, so not a full push solution.

2. LogicMail IMAP client for BlackBerry
LogicMail for BlackBerry - Trac

Re #2, have you actually used this, if so...???

[Mark Rejhon]

No. I've only learned of this recently.

It's probably not yet ready for primetime, but it shows that with all the new third-party email clients now available: We're no longer locked to only BlackBerry's own version of email anymore. Any programmer can program a 3rd party email client for BlackBerry nowadays.

...As long as it's not sophisticated enough to infringe on RIM and BES business.

[Nextel User]

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

Two new developments.

1. GMAIL just added native IMAP support.
Unfortunately, BIS doesn't do IMAP IDLE, so not a full push solution.

2. LogicMail IMAP client for BlackBerry
LogicMail for BlackBerry - Trac

just logged in to some of my gmail accounts, and the IMAP option is not there. What do you mean "Unfortunately, BIS doesn't do IMAP IDLE, so not a full push solution"?

from Gmail
Blackberry
To configure IMAP for your Blackberry, just follow these steps:

Enable IMAP in your Gmail account settings.
Select the 'PersonalEMailSetUp' icon.
Enter your Gmail username (including '@gmail.com') but leave the password field blank.
Select 'Next.'
Select 'I will provide the settings to add this email account' and then 'Next.'
Select 'Internet Service Provider Email (POP/IMAP)' and then 'Next.'
Select 'I will provide the settings to add this email account' and then 'Next.'
Enter your Gmail username (including '@gmail.com') as the user name and your password.
Enter 'imap.gmail.com' as the email server and select 'Next.'
Select 'OK.'
Below your newly added email address, select 'Edit.'
Select 'Advanced Settings' at the bottom.
Make sure that the port is set to '993' and 'Use SSL' is set to 'Yes.'
Select 'Save.'

[greeneggsandham]

Somebody edited my original title??

[tobyw]

Originally Posted by Nextel User

just logged in to some of my gmail accounts, and the IMAP option is not there. What do you mean "Unfortunately, BIS doesn't do IMAP IDLE, so not a full push solution"?

Gmail is a special case. In general, though, IMAP accounts will be polled by BIS every 15 minutes and the new mail then pushed to the handheld. IMAP IDLE allows for a persistent connection to the IMAP server with a change notification when a new message arrives, the upshot of which is that it is instantly pushed to the handheld without having to wait for the 15 minute polling interval.

RIM experimented with IMAP IDLE on BIS, but disabled it because on servers that didn't support IDLE and concurrent connections their methodology meant that message delivery could then be delayed by up to six hours. I would expect (or is that hope?!) that IMAP IDLE will make a return in a future version of BIS when these wrinkles have been ironed out.

[xxDruMMer BoYxx]

DAng!!!! If theres one moment in my life where ive ever felt low and stupid, is right about now after this article, concluding with the 2 minutes of my life ill never get back as well....And i feel like "tobyw's" little profie picture.......

Bang!!! yup, the sound of my head hitting the wall...