[bubbaman]

I know there are many users on this site that complain about the crippled gps on their blackberry's from providers such as Verizon or Alltel. I am sure there are some lawyers that visit this site and could maybe shed some light if this would even be possible.

My biggest complaint:

I have an 8703e from Alltel that I purchased. I did not know that the GPS was crippled. I didn't read anywhere, nor was I told that I could not use the functionality of the GPS on the device as advertised by the manufacturer. The only way that the GPS will work on my device with Alltel is to purchase Telenav for $9.99/month and then it is useable. I haven't tried it, but another user said that if you do buy the Telenav, BBMaps will also work with the GPS after Telenav is installed. Basically, I bought a device from Alltel that they took functionality away from. They charge me for phone+unlimited data useage, but they cripple part of the BB and make the user pay a third party to make it work the way the manufacturer intended.



Another worry:

I am sure that these companies make big bucks by crippling devices and then charging more in a round-about way. What is to stop these companies basically disabling GPS, then multi-media capabilities, etc.

It wouldn't bother me as much if I could choose another carrier, but Alltel basically has a monopoly in our area and I don't have much of a choice for another carrier.


Is a class-action lawsuit even possible?

[ShaneToronto]

no.

[jibi]

Verizon nor Alltel promote the built-in GPS receiver without mentioning the optional TeleNav service. Sprint has chosen the 'high road' and actively promoted the same devices with built-in and free GPS functionality. This is their decisions to make money from their customers. It's a very common business practice (making money, that is). Just as some carriers disable the ability to send text/SMS messages over data networks (the functionality is there) in order to have another revenue stream.

As a consumer, there would be no class-action lawsuit possible. Do you really want to open the door for the government to dictate to carriers what services they can and cannot offer their own customers? No. If they were blocking your ability to dial 9-1-1, then sure, there would be an argument. The strongest statement you could make would be to move your business to Sprint and make it known. Become a powerful blogger on the internet and trash them (Verizon, Alltel) constantly for swindling their customers out of $10/mo to enable a hardware feature that is otherwise free. Start up a grassroots petitioning campaign (it's been done; it doesn't work) and get a high-level spokesperson to literally take actual signatures (not petition.org ones or whatever the crap that contains all of the 'Make Britney grow her hair back' petitions). Consumer rights on stretch so far - after that point, you need to force their hand by spreading public awareness of the shady business practices to a vast number of people and speak to them in volumes (otherwise, you won't be heard). This is not done through yet another class-action lawsuit (especially where there's no basis, although you make want to seek formal legal opinions rather than my own personal ones).

[bubbaman]

Thanks for the answers.

I was just curious of the possiblity. It sounds like it is going to take someone who gets in a wreck, doesn't know where they are, and their local 911 service doesn't yet have the capability to trace the gps.

I don't like when people sue for frivolus reasons, but when someone is suing verizon or alltel, because they were in a wreck, pinned half under their vehicle and could have told the rescue people where they were, but their gps was disabled. I bet that would fly well with the judge when a Verizon representitive stands in front of the court and argues how they disabled a possible life saving device to make more money.

[JSanders]

Originally Posted by bubbaman

I don't like when people sue for frivolus reasons, but when someone is suing verizon or alltel, because they were in a wreck, pinned half under their vehicle and could have told the rescue people where they were, but their gps was disabled. I bet that would fly well with the judge when a Verizon representitive stands in front of the court and argues how they disabled a possible life saving device to make more money.

Say what? So, those of us without Verizon should sue too, because Verizon didn't sell me a BB to save my life? And sue the radio station on the receiver, too, because they didn't tell me about the bridge out just ahead?

You have a choice, get a BB with gps.

[JRSCCivic98]

I don't agree with any of you. I think the business practices of Verizon are immoral and unetical. The fact alone that they use customer's "unawareness of product capabilities" as their base for disabling these native capabilities and then charging for them is basis alone for someone sue them on a mass scale. The autonomous GPS capabilities are not in any way linked to their provider network for the GPS data. The map data is a different story, but that doesn't matter in this perticular viewpoint. The cell providers can limit or change any feature that has to do with a phone they sell when it uses a network capability. Since GPS is not part of that capability they have no right to do so in this perticular case, but their standpoint is... Since the majority of the customers don't know the details of the GPS in this device they'd be too stupid to even know they will be paying for something that they would have already gotten. This is no different then limiting Bluetooth/USB file access so that people can't put their own pics or sounds on a phone to use as a wallpaper or ringtone. Remember the Razor Bluetooth lawsuit they has after the release of that phone. People could go into the stores months later and get it unlocked if it was locked so they could put their own stuff on the phone rather then use the GetIT now BS.

The defining line is this... if you rent the equipment then the carrier you're renting the equipment from has every right to limit its capabilities. If you do not rent it, then it's your right as a consumer to use it to it's "native capability" extent and have all of those capabilities available to you. This is why it's against the law to deny a SIM unlock that a customer requests for any phone. Think of all of this as a monopoly of services/capabilites and it'll make more sense in your minds.

[zero7404]

i love Tmobile

[JSanders]

The 8800 has gps and it works.

Anyone could say, "I am suing because Ford didn't put Air Conditioning in my car, and I know they can do it because I see it in that model car over there. Even though I CHOSE to purchase another model which I know doesn't have AC, I am suing because Ford failed to put it my model also."

So, yes, one can sue for whatever they like. And judges across the county toss out more suits on the first filing than ever reach the light of day.

[test54]

i love AT&T atleast for the GPS.

I could understand this before you could port your number but now just quick whining and switch. No one forced you to buy that 8830 or to stay with Verizon. As for the Alltel, well if they are your OLY choice then you have to live with their devices and policies. I hate the sue happy society...

[birddog]

VZW is not a monopoly and they did not do anything that, I think, would justify your being able to win a suit against them. Nowhere in a VZW adds did they claim to support GPS on the 8830.

All that said, I will not likely use VZW again. My contract is over at the end of this month -- I will not give them an early termination -- but my next phones will be with Sprint or AT&T.

We need to keep up the chatter on this issue -- so others hear what a scumbag company VZW is and so that they too can choose not to use VZW services.

BTW.. I use VZW for my home phone too. This issue has caused me to look at VOIP for home service, which I will be converting to soon.

And to Verizon: Thanks for being scumbags by disabaling the GPS on the 8830; VOIP is going to save me considerable cash for my home phone! I would never have considered it except for this 8830 GPS thing.

In the long run, I will save quite a bit of cash -- VOIP is much cheaper than the POTS I have now, and Sprint's wireless plans are cheaper too.

[JRSCCivic98]

Originally Posted by JSanders

But you are wrong.

The 8800 has gps and it works.

The 8830 does not have gps, it is not disabled (that is word tossed about on this board), it just plain doesn't have it. Hence the different model number. Again, anyone could say, "I am suing because Ford didn't put Air Conditioning in my car, and I know they can do it because I see it in that model car over there. Even though I CHOSE to purchase another model which I know doesn't have AC, I am suing because Ford failed to put it my model also."

So, yes, one can sue for whatever they like. And judges across the county toss out more suits on the first filing than ever reach the light of day.

Open mouth, insert foot. The 8830 does have autonomous GPS man, where did you get the BS you're spewing in this post? You must be high or something. Go look up the hardware specs on the 8830, it most definatly has autonomous GPS. Not only that, but higher tier techs from RIM have directly stated verbally and on paper that the GPS was disabled by/at VZW's request on the 8830. (I know, because I talked to them about it.) Word to the wise... Don't do crack! It causes you to post things like the above and have everyone laugh at you. BTW, the different model number is to indicate CDMA/GSM combined capabilities silly boy.

[JSanders]

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

Don't do crack! It causes you to post things like the above and have everyone laugh at you.

Note to self: Advice given from personal experience speaks loudly.

Note to JR: Give it a rest on insulting members of this forum, specifically, me.

[birddog]

Originally Posted by JSanders

But you are wrong.

The 8800 has gps and it works.

The 8830 does not have gps, it is not disabled (that is word tossed about on this board), it just plain doesn't have it.

Then the Sprint customers do have a valid lawsuit -- because Sprint clearly advertises GPS in the 8830..

Sprint Announces BlackBerry 8830 World Edition Smartphone

BTW... The 8830 does have it and YES (the scumbags at) VZW crippled it.

[JSanders]

Hey, I am not trying to keep anyone from suing, just a friendly conversation here (well other than JR).

And you will learn in class action suits, the "class" (if the judge determines there is actually a "class" that has been harmed), will end up after a 2-3+ years with a pittance of a damages awarded, often something like $50 credit on your next Sprint phone bill or some few $$s discount on your next phone purchase. However, the lucky law firm will go home with 33-50% of the awarded damages. Oh that is if the the case gets past go.

[pyro451]

The cost of frivolous lawsuits is killing this country. Think of the dollars that could have been spent on goods, boosting the economy.

The reality is, you do have a choice. I bet if you contacted VZW IMMEDIATELY after realizing they crippled the GPS they would allow you to return the or cancel the account. Especially if you spoke with top tier support or management.

Even RIM's site has an asterist next to the GPS feature stating that it is up to the carrier to decide (paraphrased).

The best way to make a point to VZW is to take away your $$ from their coffers by switching carriers. Be sure to keep up the forum posts and word of mouth about how bad they are as well (taking others' $$ away from them).

BTW, home VOIP can be great. I have it through Charter and love it.

[takeshi]

Originally Posted by bubbaman

Is a class-action lawsuit even possible?

A class action suit is always possible. However, do you really want a token coupon for Verizon service as a settlement while the attorneys walk off with massive fees?? I never understand why people bother with these things (unless people who suggest them have never had any experience with them).

I always work to exclude myself from the class as coupons are never a suitable settlement IMO. If I wasn't happy with the company to begin with I sure don't want to be stuck with a settlement that involves using their services again. These sorts of settlements may cost the company a small amount but they never end up paying what they really should to the class members.

...and perhaps the improved coverage makes Verizon worthwihle for many even considering that they are infamous for crippling devices. While I normally say consider coverage first when selecting a carrier I always exclude Verizon for that reason (and also beause they're CDMA) when shopping for a new carrier. If having an uncrippled device is a priority then why would you even consider a carrier with such a reputation in the first place? It's like choosing at&t and expecting knowledgeable CSR's...

[JRSCCivic98]

Originally Posted by JSanders

Note to JR: Give it a rest on insulting members of this forum, specifically, me.

I'm not insulting you. I'm calling your BS post about the 8830's capabilities which of course you have no idea about. The fact alone that you stated that the 8830 does not have GPS and that it's a rumor speaks very loudly about what I said earlier. VZW uses this "unknowing/uneducated customer" approach to charge us to use features which are really native capabilities to begin with. I'm sorry if you took it personally, but the fact of the matter sits as follows; GPS is native on the 8830 and you stated a falsehood. I corrected you on this as did the person after me. You were wrong, everyone else was right. No reason to get mad at someone else over something of your own fault. Cheer up man.

BTW, I agree that a class action lawsuit would just put money in other people's pockets, but it seems that in today's world large companies don't understand anything else. It's either that or people start complaining to such places like the Consumerist.com or even tech news agencies or the FTC about these wrongful acts by VZW. They key factor here is... Loudness and Circulation of these facts about VZW. Also, changing carriers isn't going to fix the problem at its core. VZW is pretty reliable for me in terms of network... their phones on the other hand is where the problem is. That's the part that needs to get fixed.

[JSanders]

JR, you called me stupid, which you edited out. Thank you.
You re-read your post #11 and if you think that is a "civil" conversation, I don't want to hang in your crowd.

You've taken a debate or conversation about whether a class action lawsuit is possible against Verizon or Alltel, to making it a personal attack on me. I am not Verizon. I am not your target.

Please quit thread crapping. Again.

[brittonx]

I have to say that while I am extremely irritated that Verizon had decided to have the GPS disabled, it is nowhere close to being a litigious issue.

We may not like it but this is how business works. How we impact this as consumers is to vote with our dollars. If we don't like what a particular carrier is doing, we should switch and most importantly, make sure the carrier understands why we have left. Only when they start losing measurable revenue will any of the businesses change what they are doing.

[jgb@etree]

Jibi and the rest are correct - there is no point in attempting to file a class action suit, as VZW has done nothing wrong by disabling the GPS functionality (as muct as this irritates us all). They would, however, become a class action target if they were advertising the GPS capabilities, and THEN disabled them. I'm going to assume that they learned their lesson from the Moto v710 class action suit (I was one of the 4 named plantiff's representing the class) where they vaguely promised full BT compatibility and then limited the phone it to DUN and BT Headset profiles