[JasonSamfield]

just read what this says about smartphones to get a better idea of what they really are:
Smartphone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Comparison of smartphones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Smartphone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[wabbit]

Originally Posted by JasonSamfield

well i'm going to quit arguing, but i still know i'm right...you have not proven to me that it is not a computer....

like i said, it's a 600 mhz dual core 16 GB secondary storage computer...i can disbable the mobile network and then it's just a PC...i can reenable it to give me the data services that provide my internet (my NIC)...and it just happens to also be a phone and GPS unit

if you want to continue discussing why the BB Storm is or is not a computer, then give me your top 5 reasons for why it is not a computer and i will respond with why i think it is...otherwise, i'm done trying to convert non-believers

an abacus is a computer. a calculator is a computer, yet, they do a set defined functions. everything with a cpu is computer, take a car, they have computers modules etc, yet do do a pre set function. the ecu controls the eng / transmission etc.

while yes, a blackberry is a computer, as with anything that does mathematical computations, its still a small portable device that does a set or predefined items.

[JasonSamfield]

Originally Posted by wabbit

an abacus is a computer. a calculator is a computer, yet, they do a set defined functions. everything with a cpu is computer, take a car, they have computers modules etc, yet do do a pre set function. the ecu controls the eng / transmission etc.

while yes, a blackberry is a computer, as with anything that does mathematical computations, its still a small portable device that does a set or predefined items.

haha, close

blackberry is electronic, has secondary storage and primary storage (RAM), has a complex operating system that allows for general purpose computing applications to be designed...

by your measure, a desktop computer might not be considered as a computer because it does a "predefined set of functions"...

in reality, everything in this world is based upon mathematics and performs some degree of mathematical calucations...but i don't even want to try to explain that...you guys are having a tough time understanding why a BB Storm is a computer...

my Storm does not do a predefined set of functions because i can write software to do non-predefined functions...

it's a von neumann machine...it is not a deterministic machine...which is what i think you are trying to say...it's a non-deterministic machine...the determinism was removed as soon as the API was created

[JasonSamfield]

i guess i should be very very very specific

it is an electronic computer using a transistor semiconductor microchip and a software system consisting of a microkernel operating system with layered design from hardware abstraction to an API (application programming interface) that allows applications/programs to be developed for any sort of computing requirements that can be executed within the hardware specifications that are comparable to very late 1990's desktop computer specifications...it has a unique touchscreen LCD display that allows the user to interact with the system from the display without visually distinct peripheral device for HCI (human-computer interaction)....many software programs exist that give the user of the device to perform all the normal desktop computer activities and functions such as office, email, internet, multimedia display and interaction....many applications can and probably will be created to bring the level of functionality to an even higher level creating applications that do not exist even in desktop computers by harnessing the LBS (location based services) to give a new level and paradigm to personal computing...

what's that again? it's not a computer? then what is it? a phone? hardly...just a small portion of the device is actually a phone...otherwise i wouldn't be having this conversation with you guys...because the original post was because i want to turn off processes that are auto-starting on their own without my consent

[JasonSamfield]

device that receives, processes, and presents information. The two basic types of computers are analog and digital. Although generally not regarded as such, the most prevalent computer is the simple mechanical analog computer, in which gears, levers, ratchets, and pawls perform mathematical operations—for example, the speedometer and the watt-hour meter (used to measure accumulated electrical usage). The general public has become much more aware of the digital computer with the rapid proliferation of the hand-held calculator and a large variety of intelligent devices and especially with exposure to the Internet and the World Wide Web. See also Calculators; Internet; World Wide Web.

An analog computer uses inputs that are proportional to the instantaneous value of variable quantities, combines these inputs in a predetermined way, and produces outputs that are a continuously varying function of the inputs and the processing. These outputs are then displayed or connected to another device to cause action, as in the case of a speed governor or other control device. Small electronic analog computers are frequently used as components in control systems. If the analog computer is built solely for one purpose, it is termed a special-purpose electronic analog computer. In any analog computer the key concepts involve special versus general-purpose computer designs, and the technology utilized to construct the computer itself, mechanical or electronic. See also Analog computer.

In contrast, a digital computer uses symbolic representations of its variables. The arithmetic unit is constructed to follow the rules of one (or more) number systems. Further, the digital computer uses individual discrete states to represent the digits of the number system chosen. A digital computer can easily store and manipulate numbers, letters, images, sounds, or graphical information represented by a symbolic code. Through the use of the stored program, the digital computer achieves a degree of flexibility unequaled by any other computing or data-processing device.

The advent of the relatively inexpensive and readily available personal computer, and the combination of the computer and communications, such as by the use of networks, have dramatically expanded computer applications. The most common application now is probably text and word processing, followed by electronic mail. See also Electronic mail; Local-area networks; Microcomputer; Word processing.

Computers have begun to meet the barrier imposed by the speed of light in achieving higher speeds. This has led to research and development in the areas of parallel computers (in order to accomplish more in parallel rather than by serial computation) and distributed computers (taking advantage of network connections to spread the work around, thus achieving more parallelism). Continuing demand for more processing power has led to significant changes in computer hardware and software architectures, both to increase the speed of basic operations and to reduce the overall processing time. See also Computer systems architecture; Concurrent processing; Distributed systems (computers); Multiprocessing; Supercomputer.

computer

[dc/dc]

Just stop. Seriously. All you're doing at this point is picking nits and arguing semantics, and it is not providing any positive benefit to anyone.

[JasonSamfield]

well, call it what you want, it's a computing device...whether that's a computer to you or not is up to your mental model of what a computer actually is...to give more depth to that statement, most people thought that the sun revolved around the earth until they were able to discover that in fact the earth revolves around the sun...your perspective has a lot to do with your background...maybe you are not a big computer science person...that would explain your preface of calling it a phone versus mine for calling it a computer

let's return to the original post which i asked where there exists an ability to control startup apps on the BlackBerry OS.....i did find some information after excluding these forums in my searches and i'll post the link here for anybody that would like to learn more about the auto-starting of apps, this is something semi-relevant and about as close to anything that i was able to find to an answer....and it's straight from RIM themselves

auto-start info from blackberry:
BlackBerry Support Community Forums - Re: Disable auto-run on startup - Java Development - BlackBerry Support Community Forums

it does not look promising for an answer or any help from RIM or even a third party app, but at least it's a freaking answer...i seem to find those rarely around here...basically, each app controls the way it runs and you can't do anything about it....very very very lame...

coupled with the other loss on the 128 MB application and OS memory space limitation front, i am currently very disgusted with the turn of events in finding these truths and i'm upset at the phone and RIM for not enabling it as they could and should have...i was sold on lies that my blackberry was truly superior than all the other mobile devices when in fact it lacks in a few key areas that are crucial to its survival in the mobile computing environment of this decade...

oh and i want better user control that i have come to accept as RIM's standard focus in their design of the BlackBerry OS in previous implementations

in continuation of this thread, does anybody think (doubtful here) that there is a possibility of a third party app that could gain control of other apps and their auto-starting functions after reading the above link?

[JSanders]

Originally Posted by JasonSamfield

in continuation of this thread, does anybody think (doubtful here) that there is a possibility of a third party app that could gain control of other apps and their auto-starting functions after reading the above link?

Sure there's a possibility.

[JasonSamfield]

ok then, let's discuss the possibility....have you or anyone reading this thread seen anything related to finding a solution to this problem?

[JSanders]

No.

Check over in the developer section and hire one you like.

[wabbit]

this thread is pointless. theirs a variety of apps if you dont like one, a diffrent will suit your needs, on a side note blackberry is still keeping the design simple, when its broken turn it off and back on everything is fixed

p.s its a device.

[JasonSamfield]

Originally Posted by wabbit

on a side note blackberry is still keeping the design simple, when its broken turn it off and back on everything is fixed

that's bad design though...it's better to fix the problem so it does not occur again instead of always starting over...but i'm going to stop posting because you guys are clearly OK with being complicit and submissive to your device where i would much rather not be

Originally Posted by wabbit

p.s its a device.

and thank you for your carefully thought insight on Blackberry Storms being a device...i will forever consider it a device instead of a computer...my bad...i was totally wrong...not even close

[JSanders]

Originally Posted by JasonSamfield

that's bad design though...it's better to fix the problem so it does not occur again instead of always starting over...but i'm going to stop posting because you guys are clearly OK with being complicit and submissive to your device where i would much rather not be

Jason, I understand RIM is hiring this year 4,000 new employees, even some in Texas. Get your resume spiffed up.

RIM Tenth Anniversary; five new carriers for 8900 and 9500 | BlackBerryNews.com

[wabbit]

Originally Posted by JasonSamfield

that's bad design though...it's better to fix the problem so it does not occur again instead of always starting over...but i'm going to stop posting because you guys are clearly OK with being complicit and submissive to your device where i would much rather not be

how is this a bad design?

most people have no clue how their pc works now they have to learn how their portable device works?

90% of people could care less as long as their email works, they get phone calls, and when in doubt can reset a device with loosing info just by pulling the battery out and back in.

not everyone who walks around with a blackberry is tech savvy, nor do they have the time to learn the in's out of the os.

[SteveO86]

How many people voted "no" to the poll??

I for one did.. If RIM gave more access to thier device/OS then it would not be as secure and it currently is now.. What you have is another flavor of WinMo/Iphone being cracked/hacked/jail breaked/whatever you want to call it.

The BlackBerry was initially a pager-like device for email when it first started (would you consider that a computer as well??) and it has been evolving slowly and will continue to evolve.. Thier is a reason the BlackBerry has been around for years and is used by Gov't agencies.. It is a successful device. Plain and simple.

While this is a successful device that can perform many tasks it is still considered a Smartphone, not a full fledged laptop/desktop/netbook and it does have it's limitations.

The BlackBerry is advertised as a Smartphone NOT a computer... given the logic can I consider my laptop with Skype a Smartphone surely the logic can be reversed?

Yes, I'm sure you can (and will) continue calling it a computer, you can call it an Atari for all care, but until I see RIM themselves calling a computer and not a smartphone I am still considering a smartphone (for the mere fact it is still phone).

[daphne]

One thing you have to agree on... the OP is persistant. But it's all moot anyway because, as they say, "it is what it is" and if it doesn't meet your needs, don't use it.

To the OP -- maybe you'd get a response more to your liking on RIM's official forum. BlackBerry Support Community Forums - BlackBerry Support Community Forums - BlackBerry Support Community Forums

[JasonSamfield]

Originally Posted by SteveO86

If RIM gave more access to thier device/OS then it would not be as secure and it currently is now.. What you have is another flavor of WinMo/Iphone being cracked/hacked/jail breaked/whatever you want to call it.

not necessarily, if they just give a little here and there like which applications auto-start, it would be much better...

at present, RIM already does this, but only per application and only if the developer builds it into the app...why not allow it for all unnecessary applications and services including background processes that are not crucial to the OS or phone's operation?

it makes total sense to me...especially when you have a limited amount of memory and CPU power to run an already strained system that users expect almost realtime computing capabilities from...

just a simple listing in the phone's options section with check boxes per each auto-starting process...that's all i'm asking

Originally Posted by SteveO86

The BlackBerry was initially a pager-like device for email when it first started (would you consider that a computer as well??)

no, it was not at the level it is today that i would classify as a computing device because it was not expandable, general purpose, using a degree of multiprogramming, nor having an expandable functionality based upon application development...a pager is a computer in computer science terminology much like charles babbage's machine, but it is not comparable to what we call computers...i think the more correct term i would say is personal computer...the storm is a personal computer almost more so than it is a phone

Originally Posted by SteveO86

Thier is a reason the BlackBerry has been around for years and is used by Gov't agencies.. It is a successful device. Plain and simple.

maybe so, but maybe the success was directly because of the contracts and the capabilities that those valuable contracts made the developers work around...

with that being said, it is now being marketed as a civilian device that is a competitor to the iphone, however, it still conforms to its older evolutionary history as a purely corporate and military device with high security as a focal point...

(i actually chose BlackBerry many years ago because of the security features for my own personal use separate from my professional use...)

however, the older design will hamper its civilian market success in the near future when word gets out that the newly released app world is not an apple store equivalent as advertised nor is it a decent competitor because the device itself (storm) is not capable to house the numerous applications that everyone expects from an "app store" capable device...that bar was set by apple and everyone has been doing catch up since...

i think it would be best for the company to branch off in both directions (military-corporate and personal) if they want to retain their old success and continue to capture more of the smartphone market share success that the iphone and apple have done...as a top smartphone company, RIM cannot ignore this new market and also remain viable...

Originally Posted by SteveO86

While this is a successful device that can perform many tasks it is still considered a Smartphone, not a full fledged laptop/desktop/netbook and it does have it's limitations.

i'm not saying that it is a full fledged desktop, but it isn't really that limited...if you compare it to personal computers of last decade, it actually is more capable...i'm just saying that it has achieved the level of a general purpose computer and more specifically it has achieved the level of personal computer status...

Originally Posted by SteveO86

The BlackBerry is advertised as a Smartphone NOT a computer... given the logic can I consider my laptop with Skype a Smartphone surely the logic can be reversed?

the line between smartphone and computer is becoming blurry...defining either is going to be more difficult as these devices become more advanced and full of functionality that is familiar as personal computer functionality...

the reason why i call it a computer is because of all the personal computer functionality that it has....its use of secondary storage, it's dual core CPU, it's multi-programmed operating system, and the fact that familiar computing features are available to me now such as browsing the Internet, editing office documents, gaming, photo editing, multimedia storage and playback, along with the multitude of other features like email that you normally only find on a personal computer...

the expandability, the versatility, the vast multitude of its applicability beyond what it can do currently that is envisioned when new developers consider developing new applications for it....

any single feature would not necessarily persuade my mind to accept its redefinition as a personal computer, but the inclusion of all these features combined creates a certain synergy which switches its definition for me...pop-culture will catch up soon enough and so will the marketing business, however, marketing guys like buzz words and "smartphone" will probably be here to stay, but it has definitely switched from being just a phone to a personal computer with a phone or a phone with a personal computer...industry professionals are already calling it mobile computing, i think the future is very bright for this type of computing...i'd much rather have a laptop the size of a mobile phone than to have a huge laptop to lug around everywhere...glad i have my storm!

a few succinct rhetoric questions that we can ponder in reference to this discussion:

• when did a phone become a smartphone?
• was there a defining moment?
• what does the word smartphone actually mean exactly?

is there any other single device besides a personal computer (netbook/laptop/desktop) that can do all of these mentioned "personal computer tasks" as part of the single device's capability other than the blackberry storm? if so, i'm interested...but only if it is the size of my storm and have a big screen like the storm as well as having the capability of making phone calls and receiving all of its data connectivity via a cellular network or satellite...

of course it is a smartphone, but it is also a computer...just like a netbook, laptop, desktop are computers...i do not limit my definition of a computer based upon a certain "form factor"....the blackberry storm has officially achieved status as a computer in my mind for all the reasons above and even more so than the iphone (mainly because of the storm's level of multiprogramming and removable secondary storage)

blackberry users should be proud of this, not against it...sorry i stirred up such a controversy

[JasonSamfield]

Originally Posted by wabbit

how is this a bad design?

i think you misunderstood what i was calling bad design...i was calling it bad design to perform a battery pull for any problem encountered...essentially that's saying that it's ok to just alleviate the symptoms instead of fixing the problem that caused the symptoms...i believe that fixing the problem is more important than just alleviating the symptoms alone...

[wabbit]

Originally Posted by JasonSamfield

i think you misunderstood what i was calling bad design...i was calling it bad design to perform a battery pull for any problem encountered...essentially that's saying that it's ok to just alleviate the symptoms instead of fixing the problem that caused the symptoms...i believe that fixing the problem is more important than just alleviating the symptoms alone...

you are very much missing the point.

with that said

since its a computer and not a device, go download android its free os, with source, and load it on a blackberry then code what you want.

i give up you are really missing the picture.

[compugeek_610]

this has been a great read


Moral of the story Jason , maybe you should have done some research before purchasing the phone.