[MichaelBB]

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

I wanted to add that the crippling of GPS was done actually by RIM under VZW's request. VZW didn't rewrite the RIM code. The firmware in the phone (not he OS cod files) is written in such a way that on bootup the firmware looks up two check ids. It looks for Vendor ID and it looks for Model Number. If the answers from the phone is 105 and 8830, GPS is disabled and the bootup continues to load the OS. This is built into firmware of the phone in every carrier's OS because the firmware is a cross-carrier version. This is why loading up Sprint's OS doesn't do squat. Hope that helps with everyone to visualize things.

Well if what you say is true, I would think that they have a way either through connected to a computer or maybe through a key sequence on boot up to get into the bios. Hey ! its a thought

[TBOLTRAM]

My opinion is that the legality of what is happening can not be determined by non-legal types. If no satisfactory solution is arrived at by end of October I am considering contacting the Texas AG and get a legal opinon if deceptive advertising was involved. I cannot determine this, CELLCO PARTNERS d/b/a Verizon Wireless cannot determine this and most of the readers of this forum cannot determine this.

If it is determined that deceptive advertising may have occured this should be handled as a criminal issue and not a civil or class action case. If it is determined that deceptive advertising did not occur then that is the end of the matter. In any event, in my opinion, this is something that should be handled by your states AG office.

[MichaelBB]

Originally Posted by TBOLTRAM

My opinion is that the legality of what is happening can not be determined by non-legal types. If no satisfactory solution is arrived at by end of October I am considering contacting the Texas AG and get a legal opinon if deceptive advertising was involved. I cannot determine this, CELLCO PARTNERS d/b/a Verizon Wireless cannot determine this and most of the readers of this forum cannot determine this.

If it is determined that deceptive advertising may have occured this should be handled as a criminal issue and not a civil or class action case. If it is determined that deceptive advertising did not occur then that is the end of the matter. In any event, in my opinion, this is something that should be handled by your states AG office.

You bring up a very good point, however, if your going to wait till October arent you giving the Exec's at VZW more time to put out something that they can argue that is Utilizing the GPS functionality to there standards?

Think that came out right?

[TBOLTRAM]

I got my 8830 on May 28 and at that time I figured that end of October was the target date for all software and function issues being resolved. The date was arbitrary but one has to be realistic about time it takes to fix software.

As I travel my criteria is that the GPS functions out of the United States as the 8830 is advertised as a "World Edition" phone. In additon, the words "World Edition" is silk screened on the front of the phone. I checked and Vodafone, one of the CELLCO PARTNERS partners, offers aGPS service outside of the United States. So to answer you next question, VZ Navigator service that functions only in the United States is not satisfactory in my opinon.

My comments and opinion only apply to the 8830 and no other phone offered currently or in the past by CELLCO PARTNERS d/b/a Verizon Wireless.

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by TBOLTRAM

I got my 8830 on May 28 and at that time I figured that end of October was the target date for all software and function issues being resolved. The date was arbitrary but one has to be realistic about time it takes to fix software.

As I travel my criteria is that the GPS functions out of the United States as the 8830 is advertised as a "World Edition" phone. In additon, the words "World Edition" is silk screened on the front of the phone. I checked and Vodafone, one of the CELLCO PARTNERS partners, offers aGPS service outside of the United States. So to answer you next question, VZ Navigator service that functions only in the United States is not satisfactory in my opinon.

My comments and opinion only apply to the 8830 and no other phone offered currently or in the past by CELLCO PARTNERS d/b/a Verizon Wireless.

good luck its a waste of time and tax payers money. This horse is dead and yall keep dragging it through the desert

[John Clark]

What does "World Phone" have to do with GPS??? Nothing that I can see. It only means that the phone works worldwide.

[MichaelBB]

Originally Posted by Dawg

good luck its a waste of time and tax payers money. This horse is dead and yall keep dragging it through the desert

Well there Dawg, your in Atlanta, how about picking up the torch here and going to Verizons headquarters or big brick / steel building and deliver the general consensus of the GPS issue for all of us that like BEATING A DEAD horse !

I honestly think that corporations should be held accountable to the fullest extent.

Beat the dead horse in YOUR words, in others words its called getting what you paid for and what was advertised.

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by MichaelBB

Well there Dawg, your in Atlanta, how about picking up the torch here and going to Verizons headquarters or big brick / steel building and deliver the general consensus of the GPS issue for all of us that like BEATING A DEAD horse !

I honestly think that corporations should be held accountable to the fullest extent.

Beat the dead horse in YOUR words, in others words its called getting what you paid for and what was advertised.

why would I do that I am happy with my carrier I have a stand alone GPS so I dont need it nor want it.

not advertised and you should have researched prior to buying its no ones fault but yours.

[JGBerry]

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

Sounds to me like he either doesn't understand that the GPS capabilities of the phone are autonomous and by GPS capabilities he's relating to VZNaviagator or he's intentionally avoiding that aspect of things altogether and only focusing on what VZW characterizes as GPS Navigation for their 8830 devices.

most of the time CEO's don't even know what's really going on. they only know the BS that is fed to them by project leaders or department managers. sometimes it's just total BS to make him/her happy or to give a positive outlook on forecasting and numbers lol. just a bunch of BS usually...

i think it's hilarious how he says that engineers are working hard to bring this feature to the customers. does he realize that those SAME engineers worked hard to write a version of the Blackberry software that disabled the GPS from the get-go? sheesh

[juwaack68]

Originally Posted by Dawg

not advertised and you should have researched prior to buying its no ones fault but yours.[/B]

Dawg, that has got to be the most lucid, intelligent thing I've heard anyone say since all these Verizon GPS threads have started up.

[BFEINZIMER]

Originally Posted by juwaack68

Dawg, that has got to be the most lucid, intelligent thing I've heard anyone say since all these Verizon GPS threads have started up.

Too bad it was advertised...

[JRSCCivic98]

This is what I wrote in to the CEO. He's yet to still answer my email several days later.




Mr. McAdam, recently you wrote the following to a fellow 8830 owner on the VZW network.



__________________________Prior Email___________________________________

Mr. Xxxxxx
I appreciate your comments and thank you for sending them to me.* One of the side effects of the internet is that inaccurate information is often propogated and becomes "fact".* In this case, reality is that we do plan on bringing the GPS services to market before the end of the year.* We have not disabled the feature.* We decided to launch the device rather than wait for the capability*to be delivered on CDMA dual mode devices.* We realize that having the feature on the 8830 will bring new revenue to Verizon wireless and meet customers needs.* That is why our technical and product teams are working hard to get the product ready for market.* There is no conspiracy here.
We look forward to winning your business.
Lowell McAdam

__________________________________________________ ____________________





Ixxx8217;m having a hard time understanding whether or not you comprehend where the actual issue with GPS on Verizon resides. I want to make sure that you truly realize that the GPS chipset in the phone has autonomous capabilities natively. This means that no xxx8220;tie-inxxx8221; is necessary to the wireless carrier network for GPS to work (with the exception of data transfer for map data, that is, but that is no different then any other tcp/ip data). With that being said, your comment leads me to believe youxxx8217;ve phrased it in such a way as to deny the fact that VZW has disabled autonomous GPS in the 8830 only to allow VZNavigator access to the GPS API subsystem. No other CDMA carrier (Bell, Sprint, etc.) have disabled native GPS on the device. Blackberry Maps, Google Maps, Telnav, etc. all have direct access to the GPS chipset in the phone for easy GPS functionality. This is the subsystem that RIM has built into the phone itself. It has nothing to do with CDMA or VZWxxx8217;s network even. Not only that, but the OS software/firmware has been written in such a way that on startup the OS checks the device IDs for values of itxxx8217;s model number as well as carrier id. If the responses are carrier id 105 and model 8830 GPS is immediately disabled and the device continues itxxx8217;s startup routine. Letxxx8217;s not beat around the bush here, we all know VZW disabled GPS in order to capita lize on using ONLY VZWNavigator or whatever else software you have upcoming for a monthly fee. I think the entire Blackberry community is entitled to an explanation of why xxx8220;nativexxx8221; RIM designs were changed for your own gains. None of the other carriers have done this and they also offer xxx8220;pay forxxx8221; GPS solutions on their networks. I think we can all agree that there will be xxx8220;pay forxxx8221; GPS solutions from your network for this device coming out shortly, but to completely circumvent the native capability of the RIM design and not give consumers a choice of using xxx8220;pay forxxx8221; GPS solutions or simply use the xxx8220;built in/freexxx8221; GPS solutions is not very consumer friendly and everyone is very upset with this. I strongly urge you to turn this issue around and re-enable the native GPS capabilities of this phone (RIM 8830). Just so wexxx8217;re on the same technical page below Ixxx8217;ve included a link for the hardware specs for this device below. Also, keep in mind that consumers already have verbal and written statements from RIM themselves which state that VZW requested contractually that RIM disable the full GPS capabilities of the phone prior to making the purchase form themxxx8230; which Ixxx8217;d like to add was the largest order that VZW placed with RIM and that RIM took from any carrier in past history. Please donxxx8217;t take us consumers as uninformed xxx8220;usersxxx8221;. Wexxx8217;re not and we want our devices to work as they were designed to work from the manufacturer. Please do the right thing and undo what you have done. Help us consumers to pave your companyxxx8217;s way int o the future as the best carrier in the US. The only way to guarantee yourself this is by giving consumers uncrippled devices.



Visit this page for hardware info on 8830 please: Research In Motion BlackBerry 8830 Specs & Features (Phone Scoop)



Thank you for your time and understanding in this matter.

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by BFEINZIMER

Too bad it was advertised...

no it wasnt it...

[JRSCCivic98]

I think we can all agree that Dawg would make a good lawyer for VZW.

[JSanders]

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

I think we can all agree that Dawg would make a good lawyer for VZW.

Dawg, you're getting demoted from CEO to lawyer. Not even a stop off at janitor.

[MichaelBB]

Originally Posted by Dawg

no it wasnt it...

Dawg your playing games, its been documented, You know it has but you seem to be feeling dumb to the point. But its just YOU. Get some new glasses dude.

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by MichaelBB

Dawg your playing games, its been documented, You know it has but you seem to be feeling dumb to the point. But its just YOU. Get some new glasses dude.

show me where its documented that you can use the internal GPS show me that statement in a printed add and I wont ever post again in a GPS thread. Im calling you out put up or shut up.


I am not a lawyer I am offended by the comment I am an a$$hole but not a lawyer

[JRSCCivic98]

Originally Posted by Dawg

I am not a lawyer I am offended by the comment I am an a$$hole but not a lawyer

Is there a difference between those two terms really?

I don't think anyone can be lawyer without being the other.

BTW, word to the wise, Dawg won't accept the Justin Timberlake ad as "proof" so don't bother with it. It's obvious VZW got caught with their pants down on this one. It's been over 5 days and I haven't seen any response yet from the email I sent the CEO. That is proof enough for me that he got called on something and he's either dodging the truth or trying to come up with a valid excuse. Bottom line is VZW is scrambling to do something and in the mean time they are blaming GPS not work on their dev team that didn't release VZNavigator before release of the phone, which is completely on the other side of the earth in terms of truth of "Why GPS doesn't work on the VZW 8830".

I wanted to add something. Keep this in mind guys. I don't know if there's laws for cell carrier to disclose what works and what doesn't work on a phone that is known to do certain things from the manufacturer. If there is, then VZW is screwed because they didn't disclose that this phone would opperate any different then any other carrier's version of the 8830 in terms of manufacturer's functionality. Some people say that it wasn't advertized as having GPS. Well, I say that it wasn't advertised as not having GPS. If I shop for the same phone across multiple carriers I expect the same base functionality out of it. If you don't disclose to me that certain things don't work, I'll assume that they are all the same with the exception of price. Add to that the numerous CSRs and sales reps that indicated that GPS is a function of this phone when people bought it and you can see where the legality of things cross the line.

[BFEINZIMER]

Originally Posted by Dawg

no it wasnt it...

The JT ad is proof...like it or not. I hate to do the back and forth but seriously please open your eyes and realize that this is a clear cut case of false advertising. (Excuse any spelling errors)

[penguin3107]

Originally Posted by BFEINZIMER

The JT ad is proof...like it or not. I hate to do the back and forth but seriously please open your eyes and realize that this is a clear cut case of false advertising. (Excuse any spelling errors)

Brian, we've been down this road with you before, and the only thing that was "proven" was that you scanned and posted a pre-release ad slick which specified NOTHING about GPS navigation capabilities.
Your proof was not proof. It was a pre-release ad... nothing more.

Your proof was debunked here, as well as the other three BlackBerry forums you posted it on.

Just drop it already.