[omkhar]

Originally Posted by lmlloyd

So let me see if I get the logic here? Because one person once said that an Apple product would not do well, and it turned out to do pretty well, therefore any person who ever says that any Apple product would do poorly must be forever wrong?

I hate to break it to you, but every product that Apple puts out isn't a success like the iPod. In fact, in 30 years of constantly putting out products, they have only had one product that was an unqualified success, and that is the iPod. That is actually a pretty dismal track record if you think about it.

no lmlloyd, what I was trying to say is that anyone jumping to conclusions of dismal failure or meteoric rise is going out on a serious limb. Just pointing out that ANY prediction at this time is a bit of a stretch.

We could probably go on ad naseum with how Apple has or hasn't failed over the years but IMHO they definately have a winner with iPhone.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by CjcBuell

For those who say the iphone won't be successful, what's your definition of success??

They're looking for 1% of the phone market share which equates to about 10 million phones. I am willing to say they will sell 10 million phones no problem...especially if it proves to work as they say it should.

That is a great question! As I said before, I think Apple could sell about 8 million $200 empty boxes with the Apple logo on them, because by my estimation, that is about the number of rabid Apple fans who will buy and praise anything Apple sells. Sure, if you are going to call it a success if they sell 10 million phones, then I'm sure it will be a success. However, I don't know what kind of math you are using in which 10 million is 1% of the phone market. The 2005 estimates were 2.14 billion phones in the world, so 1% would be more like 20 million. However, the U.S. (where this thing is going on sale first) only has has somewhere around 201.6 million mobile phone users, so 1% of that would only be 2 million (and some change) units.

I, however, would say that in the phone arena, 10 million really makes you a niche player, like RIM, Palm, and MS already are. I honestly don't think that Apple's investors are going to be very happy if Apple only sells 10 million of these, considering they have gotten used to hearing numbers like "70 million iPods sold" and they hear things like Nokia and Motorola selling 50 million of a single model in a single quarter.

[phungy]

Some high res pictures of the iPhone.

AppleInsider | High-quality images of Apple's iPhone (hardware)

[yunlin12]

Originally Posted by albiesf

I totally agree with you on this. Even the iPod went through various generations to be the great product it is today...don't get me started on how many better MP3 players there are out there

The 1.0 product will be great for those who like to tweak and hack, but for average consumers, they just want something that works.

That brings up the memory of the first few generations of iPod had a really poor battery life, some were down to < 4 hr of battery life after 1 year of use. I hope the iPhone does not suffer from that, because it is so cool looking. But in the end, as we combine more and more functionalities into one device, the battery will be the ****killer of it all.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by teamcrn

Your wrong and the only reason i know this is because i had to do a term paper on steve jobs. Apple was profitable from the start they only failed when they release the lisa and shortly after pushing jobs out. When they re hired him and release the imac the became profitable and the product was a hit. IPod just made them a househould name.

Profitable, and an unqualified success are very different things. Nintendo was the only game manufacturer in the last generation of consoles to turn a profit, but their console was the least successful, being outsold by both of the less profitable competitors. I'm not denying that Apple has turned a profit, but the iPod is the first product they have ever had that was the market leader in terms of sales, with no qualifications, no excuses, and no subjective fudging.

Windows, the RAZR, Coca-Cola, the original PalmPilot, the NES, the iPod, all just plain successful. No need to kibitz about what "success" means, no need to go into lengthy discussions of the difference between market share and innovation, they sold the most, and were the products in the category that everyone thought of as the most successful, therefore, an unqualified success. Apple has never had one of those before the iPod. Sure, there are plenty of people who will argue the merits of Apple products, but before the iPod, they have always been (at best) number 2.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by omkhar

no lmlloyd, what I was trying to say is that anyone jumping to conclusions of dismal failure or meteoric rise is going out on a serious limb. Just pointing out that ANY prediction at this time is a bit of a stretch.

We could probably go on ad naseum with how Apple has or hasn't failed over the years but IMHO they definately have a winner with iPhone.

Well, as someone else pointed out, how do you define a "winner?"

Personally, this seems to be another device aiming at the Treo/iPaq/HTC market, and I'm sure that in terms of that market it will do reasonably well. However, I don't see Apple having any hope of unseating Motorola and Nokia in the general mobile phone market with this device, and I don't even expect it to effect the BlackBerry market all that much. I suspect that it will be really hip for a year or two in places like NY and LA where the brand is more important than the function, and then some new shiny thing will get their attention. I also expect it will have a loyal following among the people who still keep a Newton up on a shelf somewhere, and outside of that it will probably put some real pressure on Palm, but not do much to the Windows Mobile market. Despite all the hype and marketing, these sorts of devices are still a niche market for mainly geeks.

Most people love the idea of a cool converged device, but once they have one, decide it isn't for them. I can't count how many people I have seen try Treos or Windows Mobile devices, just to end up back at a simple phone, because the combined phone/PDAs were just more hassle than they are worth for their needs.

[apple85]

I'm sold because I don't care what anyone else says when I make a purchase! I'll do my own homework and form my own opinion and damn it this is a killer product for me. I'm an Apple user and this thing I can just see syncing FLAWLESSLY (obviously it'll be apple for apples) I'll start a new contract with cingular and everything come june (currently on vzw) because I will only have 4 months left with vzw
i know i said i wouldn't buy it but DAMN this thing wasn't done credit by the rumours AT all!! This is far better than the rumours led on!

[phungy]

I would not buy a Rev. A product (iPhone in this case) as this seems like it is to test a future iPod Video. Also, many Rev. A products have had issues/bugs/defects like the Macbook CD (Rev A) which was then correct with the Macbook C2D (Rev B).

[FF0000Z]

here is another thought. is it expected that the iPhone will integrate well with a PC? i am assuming it will. on the other hand... being corporate beast that microsoft is, i wonder how easy it will be with the release of windows Vista. i wonder if testing so far has been with usual 2000/XP OS. just something to think about given the iPhone appears to be a competitor with microsoft as well.

[apple85]

i can't seem to find if it will have ichat on it or not? That would be awesome because ichat would be the aim client and reliable!

[ceebz]

meh. Touch screen keyboard and no Outlook sync.

Sexy device but, not at all for me.

[phungy]

Go to MacRumors.com forums to find threads upon threads on the iPhone that will surely answer all your questions.

[SanFrancisco]

Can't really tell from the pics, but sure looks like the back does not come off so to replace the battery. The seams look pretty tight.

And yeah, I agree with the posts that say the iPhone is just a 2007 model PDA. It's not all that much different in concept than my old Toshiba PDA/Phone I paid $600 for, back in 2000 or so.

And look at my current Dell X50v [that has since been retired]. The form factor, in general concept, is not that much different than the iPhone. Duly note of course that the iPhone has lots of updates, etc., but I'm just pointing out the similarities in concept with my almost four year old Dell PDA.

Considering that they say one billion cell phones will be sold worldwide in 2007, that's BIG business. You can bet none of the other cell phone manufacturers are going to be sitting around like potted plants.

Will be interesting to see how they respond to the iPhone. Most, I suspect, will wait to see how the iPhone does. If things go well for Apple, then of course we will see "copycat iPhones" by all the big guys.

Even so, it's not like the big cell phone manufacturers have not conceived a phone similar to the iPhone. I have a pic of a Nokia cell phone whose entire from was a touch screen like the iPhone. It is about two years old. I will see if I can find it.

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by wingchuner

iPhone was just announced today from Apple moments ago, and while their stock soared, blackberrry's plummeted. Could this be the new blackberry killer, features on this thing are amazing....

• All of the other smartphones don't look so "smart" now, do they?
ONLY if you're gullible enough to believe everything Apple says!
• Research In Motion (RIM) shares plummet 6.5%...
• Steve listening to music, Phil calls, music fades out, Phil asks for photo, Steve finds it and emails it to him while talking. Hangs up - music fades back up and resumes playing.
Yep, gullible again! This thing runs on GSM, Edge, WiFi and Bluetooth - and ONLY on Cingular, which doesn't support UMA calls over WiFi. So lets see Steve find a photo and email it while he's talking - can't be done, except in a mocked up demo!
• AAPL up $4.21, or +4.93%, to $89.68...
• View multiple webpages - cool effects - Exposé- and CoverFlow-like
• Zooming on webpages via touch
• Mail on iPhone looks just like Apple Mail - full or split-screen
• Push IMAP email - like Blackberry
Uhh, PUSH email is ONLY for yahoo mail, everything else is polled. You want PUSH corporate mail, like most BlackBerry users need? Sorry Charlie!
• Connects to any POP3 or IMAP email
Yep - polled only - NO push unless its for yahoo mail.
• Free Yahoo IMAP (and POP) email for all iPhone customers
Good thing, since its the ONLY push email available!
• Safarti web browser
• Dashboard Widgets
What the heck is a "Dashboard widget", except for marketing-speak gobbledygook?
• Google Maps - directions, satellite images...
Oh - you mean like I've had on my BlackBerry for quite some time now?
• Photos - portrait and landscape - turn the device and it displays the image correctly - zoom in and out with a touch
• SMS messaging - QWERTY keyboard on touch screen
Has ANYBODY tried to type on a small touchscreen-only simulated QWERTY keyboard? Anyone? Didn't think so.
• Conference calls... Speakerphone mode...
Revolutionary! Oh wait, my BB has had that for quite some time now. Nevermind.
• Touch your music
Touch my music? Personally, I prefer to listen to my music. :shrug:
• Visual voicemail
• Quad band GMS+Edge, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth
• UI looks amazing
With NO keyboard at all? Amazing? Says who, Apple?
• Apple has reinvented the phone
Yessirree Bob - according to Apple at least...
• Bulit-in speaker
Amazing!!!! You're kidding!!! Oh wait, so does my BlackBerry - neverrrrrmind!
• Video looks high quality - WOW!
• Apple iPhone features two-megapixel camera
• Proximity sensor automatically shuts off screen when you bring it up to your ear
And if that nifty sensor automatically shuts off the screen when someone with a relatively small head puts it up to their ear, it will ALSO automatically shut off when someone puts a LARGE hand close to it! Nifty!
• Ambiant light sensor saves power
You mean like the sensor in my year old 8700?
• Accelerometer - knows if it's in landscape or portrait position
G-U-L-L-I-B-L-E You believe that? OK, try this - put the phone on your desk in landscape position, then without touching the phone, walk around the corner of your desk and tell me if it switched to portrait mode? NO?? Didn't think so - so much for that foolproof ability to know whether its in landscape or portrait.
• iPod dock connector - headphone jack - 11/16-inch thin
• Works like magic - no stylus - Multi-Touch - multi-finger gestures
• Fully syncs with iTunes
• Runs desktop class apps - not crippled apps - and full networking
• iPhone runs on Mac OS X - five years ahead of everything... <---(BEST FEATURE OF ALL)
BEST OF ALL, too bad its not true though. It runs OS X just like the Q runs Windows - oh yeah, its "called" OS X and it has similar "look and feel" but its NOT OS X that you can transfer your MacApps to, any more than you can transfer your Windows apps to the Q. The analysts have already debunked that little lie.
• Apple sahres up 3.5% to $88.48
• Multi-Touch' technology
• Revolutionary user interface - patented - years in development
MORE marketing-speak from Apple! Ho hum
• Called "iPhone" - it's an iPod + mobile phone + internet communicator all in one device
Yep, and Cisco owns the REGISTERED trademark to "iPhone" since 2000 and introduced one recently - let the legal wars begin!

I WANT ONE!!!!

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

The Apple multitap touchscreen technology solves a lot of problems
- It turns off when brought up to face
And I'll be willing to bet that if THAT is true, then there will also be problems with it turning off when its brought close to a large hand - mark my words!
- It automatically filters out touches that don't feel like a finger (people hate those). The multitap technology reads a 2D grid snapshot of what's touching the screen, and only registers on finger-shaped touches.
- You can actually rest your hand on it and still tap a part of the screen; it will ignore the rest of your hand. You can write using a stylus with your hand resting on screen. (People hate touchscreens that only require one point of contact)
OK, I'm confused. It "filters out touches that don't feel like a finger" and "only registers on finger-shaped touches", but at the same time you can "write using a stylus with your hand resting on screen." Sooooo, is one of those statements false, or do they supply a specially designed stylus that "feels like a finger" and is shaped like a finger???

WOW, truly amazing at how many just assume if its Apple it must be nirvana. Expect this to have all the shortcomings of the first generation Windows-Mobile phones, along with a few of its own based on the as-yet-untested user-interface.

[SanFrancisco]

Interesting that on the ABC National News, Charles Gibson talked about the iPhone. He said that it is supposed to revolutionize the cell phone industry because it's a "cell phone, video player, iPod, computer and BLACKBERRY all in one device."

Huh? I can't believe he said "BlackBerry ." If any RIM execs saw that they must be frosted too.

Hats off to Apple though, on getting all the free advertising in the form of news.

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by omkhar

what I was trying to say is that anyone jumping to conclusions of dismal failure or meteoric rise is going out on a serious limb. Just pointing out that ANY prediction at this time is a bit of a stretch.

IMHO they definately have a winner with iPhone.

So when IMMEDIATELY after declaring that ANYONE who jumps to conclusions either positively or negatively is "going out on a limb" and doing "a bit of a stretch - you jump to your OWN conclusion - just exactly how should we take that - except as a serious breakdown of logic?

[SanFrancisco]

Here is the Nokia concept. It's not an all touchscreen, but it also does not have keys that click.

Just to show that the big guys are not sitting around watching the grass grow.

Confession: I have to admit I will go to the local store and check out that iPhone. Not to buy, but just to browse. Apple always has the coolest looking stuff.

[lmlloyd]

You know, I have a question for all the people singing the praises of the iPhone.

Why don't you already have a Windows Mobile, or UMPC device?

I mean, 90% of the features being touted as 'revolutionary' have been on Windows Mobile, and TabletPCs for years now. Hell, the TabletPCs just announced at CES have an interface better than this Apple multi-touch, which lets you mix a touchscreen with an actual pressure sensitive Wacom digitizer (a technology that, humorously enough, Lenovo is also calling MultiTouch, and has been for months)! All of the TabletPC and UMPC devices actually do run full Windows apps, and are really running a full version of Windows.

I just fail to understand how this one device has suddenly caused you to see the light of the whole Windows Mobile design philosophy, when you have stayed away from it for years.

Is it just because it has the Apple brand on it? For years now I have heard people loudly declaring that people just don't want the Windows Mobile style devices, and how TabletPC/UMPC is just a joke, yet as soon as Apple says these are desirable design features, people start saying they have revolutionized the industry.

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by lmlloyd

I just fail to understand how this one device has suddenly caused you to see the light of the whole Windows Mobile design philosophy, when you have stayed away from it for years.

Is it just because it has the Apple brand on it? For years now I have heard people loudly declaring that people just don't want the Windows Mobile style devices, and how TabletPC/UMPC is just a joke, yet as soon as Apple says these are desirable design features, people start saying they have revolutionized the industry.

TabletPC is one of the devices that I was referring to when saying touch screen typing devices have failed. I remember when Gates proudly announced at one CES a few years back that the touch screen tablet PC was the way of the future and was going to revolutionize the way people use computers. He also said that they would turn regular notebooks into paperwwights. He is still trying to push those things.

As to all the dancing over the iPhone, I think it is simply the excitement generated before, during, and a few weeks after MacWorld.

IMHO all the excitement will die down soon and people will go back to the business of looking at and buying other phones.

Update from the news: I can't believe the $500 and $600 prices are with a two year contract. Man that is expensive.

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

As to all the dancing over the iPhone, I think it is simply the excitement generated before, during, and a few weeks after MacWorld.

IMHO all the excitement will die down soon and people will go back to the business of looking at and buying other phones.

After disagreeing with you during the RIM-Samsung lawsuit thread, I'm in total agreement with you on this one! Looks like you, I and lmlloyd are about the only ones here not totally buying into all the the launch hype!

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

Update from the news: I can't believe the $500 and $600 prices are with a two year contract. Man that is expensive.

No kidding! Looks to me like they have a device targeted at the young consumer multimedia crowd, while coming in at a price point unheard of in the high end business market to date. I personally think the rash predictions in this forum today of a million units in the first day are totally overblown, with that kind of pricing.